By Maraget Hopper

A panel of five met at Miller Library, WNMU Campus, Tuesday evening to discuss policing and issues considered related to racial perceptions. Starting with self-introductions, Isaac Brundage, Francesca Estevez, Dr. Andrew Warren, Waldo Winborn and Gregory Elliott gave some personal background information before the questioning began. Brundage, Western New Mexico University vice president of student affairs, spoke of his father being gunned down by law enforcement officers while he was young. His introductory remarks focused on his perceptions of the situation through the years, and he stated that nothing has changed. He said relational building needed to happen; demographics may be important to what police personnel should be hired in a community. As a black, he said he and those he knew did not view these officers as help. He questioned how they should be trained and referred to lynchings that happened without trial, without jury.

Estevez, district attorney of the 6th Judicial District, told of her training and beginning career in legal aid situations in New York. She remembered that women were often victims, and she hoped to bring them fairness, integrity and honesty through her work. Later, when her legal services office closed, she was able to transfer to the district attorney's office, and in time came to New Mexico. She saw law officers as help needed. When she trained officers, she wanted to know why they were seeking these positions and whether they had the community interest at heart. While she would never acccept or excuse abusive behavior from law enforcers against people, she said she believed that dialogue was the best place to start. There needed to be respect and trust between people, regardless of race, color or gender.

Warren said he began as a public defender in Kansas City, Kansas, worked later in Dodge City, and became a defense lawyer. He also worked in an Indian nation in New Mexico, where there were race issues between Indians and whites, and presently he was a professor of criminal justice at WNMU. He saw the United States as an experiment in overcoming the negatives of a varied society; our country was made up of so many different cultures. Rather than seeing law enforcement as punishment, it was important to instill a public service mentality, and to base it on facts, not emotions.

Waldo Winborn of WNMU's campus police with 30 years of service, said he began security work without a weapon, but soon saw the need for one. He was in this position to make a living for his family. He soon decided that he would treat others the way he wanted to be treated. At first people looked at the badge, but with time they started looking at the person behind the badge. He talked, built relationships and people began coming back to him. All people are individuals. Some were bad, most were good for the community, and "we must not judge the majority by the acts of a few bad ones. That's life. Training is important, but treat people as individuals."

Gregory Elliott, student, said his father was a Marine in Queens, New York. He lived in with high-pressure situations and growing up was an intense experience. He had learned a lot from his street-smart father. He, too, said nothing had changed but society had to have law enforcement. He brought up the Trayvon Martin situation and New York officers who were gunned down. He questioned how he perceived those situations, how he would have reacted if he had been caught up in them. Could he see law officers as protecting and serving? He also remembered stories of how they went over the line, beat up others, and "got off" afterwards. Elliott did recall being taught to stand up for "what" was right, rather than "who" was "right," and to do the honorable thing.

The first discussion point centered on what panelists thought would help bridge the gap between enforcement officers and citizens. Estevez called for dialogue and to consider values. She also knew there were travesties in New Mexico and the nation, racism and other problems, but they had to be worked on. Brundage said things like Ferguson went on for years. Social media had put it on the forefront-"there were big problems." Policies needed to be changed.

Winborn said federal influences were changing the community policing structures; more and more agencies wanted to see numbers. Local officers could now score points with citations and arrests. Daily contacts were no longer a priority and not on the forms officers filled out. Personal contact is going away. Warren said if you didn't think things were better, remember fire hoses and dogs and Governor George Wallace at the University of Alabama. If things weren't better today, you wouldn't see people on the streets as media showed them in Ferguson and other places.

To the question of an obligation to hire minorities, Winborn asked why and suggested negatives entered into that. They needed to hire those who could enjoy the work and get officers back into schools. Elliott said it was time to build trust. He remembered blacks not speaking to police at very young ages. Nervous encounters and emotionalism took place instead. Brundage saw it differently. He said racism is different but still here. A police force should reflect the community. It might be OK for Winborn, but others had problems.

Estevez said standards should rise. "There arevalues. It is more than a job." Elliott questioned if this was like medical schools with cut-off points. "How do you get the right people?" Warren said to make it a desirable career. "Want better cops? Pay more! Six percent of the people commit 90 percent of the crimes. And that same percentage might hold to the law officers, too. Bad ones needed to be weeded out, but people in internal affairs tended to cook the books, too."

While some of the questions were difficult to hear, the panelists had microphones and a number of comments came through clearly. These included Winborn's opinion that a single law officer who stopped a car filled with young men after dark should be cautious; and should know to have all put their hands where he could see them; because passengers kill officers. It is all too easy. Yes, his weapon is drawn; it happens too fast if he isn't ahead of them.

Estevez's idea that it is important to "walk in other people's shoes" to understand their perspectives. Yet, she knew there were people with disordered minds, people on drugs. But she believed human beings could learn, feel, nurture love and compassion. The effort, the trying were important. Brundage said white America had a real opportunity to show respect for President Obama. That was lacking. And he remembered that policing had killed his father. He had his own experiences. Elliott echoed that; he hadn't seen enough change yet.

A period of audience input followed. One woman said she wanted to see more compassion for mothers who feared their sons would be accosted by law officers. This perspective should be in the training. A man from Tyrone said forcing people to get along by court edict didn't work. The 1960s had proven this. Change had to happen at heart level. Another person said physical resistance could be met with rope art; officers in Tokyo were trained in that and good at it. Winborn said to inform the academy with that one; they would listen.

Ben Fisher, reporter, questioned how to make abusers accountable; it was too easy to give officers a pass. Esteves said she knew of the failures; she wanted them accountable. Warren's point was that the presumption is that police are given an easy pass, but a lot of overreacting against police happens, too.

Another person outlined his personal situation and soul-searching. He questioned what a good community member was, saying he couldn't sort out all the things he had seen. Elliott responded that he should consider who he was hurting, who he was serving, and be accountable to himself; let his light shine. Brundage mentioned gang violence and how important it was to reintegrate felons and others into society. They needed jobs; who would hire them?

With that, the moderator closed the session and invited all to find food and drinks in the hall.