[Editor's Note: In the interest of getting this out soon, this author is almost word for word writing in some spots and paraphrasing in others. But it's as accurate as we can make it.]

By Mary Alice Murphy

The two candidates vying for the Grant County Commission District 5 seat are incumbent Democrat Harry Browne and challenger Republican Thomas Shelley.

Browne started off the evening with his opening speech. He thanked Daily Press Publisher Nickolas Seibel for hosting the forum, as it was the best way to get information to voters, when campaigning is difficult. He also thanked the audience. He compared the presidential debate, which he did not watch, to this forum, saying that this community does not have to face the same sort of division and chaos.

Browne: We on the commission have lots of different views, but we work together well as a team. We keep focused on what we think is best for the residents of Grant County, managing the budget, making sure our hospital stays viable and grows and thrives. And our residents have opportunities for employment and enjoyment. We're doing all that in, I think, the best spirit of democracy. It's part of the reason I decided to run again. I really like local government; I like being able to contribute my skills to it; and we've got a really good team now. I hope I am re-elected, but even if I'm not I will support what the county does. Let's have a good time tonight.

Shelley: Thanks to Nick, the Daily Press and everyone who has joined in. My name is Tom Shelley, but, on the ballot, you will see Thomas L. Shelley, so please fill in that bubble. I was born and raised in Silver City. I have deep roots here, lots of family and friends and it's always been my home. My wife Sandy and I feel really blessed to raise our family in this community. For work, I have served as a U.S. Army soldier, a professional engineer and for the last 28 years, I'm proudly a copper miner. In addition, we own and operate a family cattle ranch. For fun, I'm a grandpa mainly, and I'm an avid wilderness hiker, and a mediocre stream fisherman. I enjoy community service. The wilderness and the environment are very important to me and my family. We depend on it also, for our family cattle ranch. I'm speaking to you tonight to ask for your trust and your vote. My first priority is let's work together to recover our community health and economy from the current COVID crisis. I decided quite a while ago to run for this position to give back to the community that has given me and my family so much. However, my commitment was solidified in 2019 when my opponent, Commissioner Browne, promoted legislation that deeply harmed mining and our local prosperity. Since then, other businesses have also felt attacked. We welcome newcomers with open arms into our community. But we don't support outside agendas that harm our economy and our culture. So, I appreciate being respectful, telling the whole truth and will consult with families that are most impacted by government actions.

Question: In 2019 Wild Earth Guardians sued to stop cutting timber to protect the spotted owl. What relationship with Wild Earth Guardians or other environmental groups do you have?

Shelley: That is a good example of a disturbing trend. We pass legislation at the state and federal levels that is for a good cause, such as the spotted owl or another endangered species, but we don't give funding to the administering agencies to deal with the issues. Then an aggressive environmental group sues. The litigation ties the hands of the agencies. I don't think the environmental agencies take responsibility for what their actions cause. I don't think the other agencies can do what they need to do to benefit the land and the species. What good does suing do when you see these fires coming through with devastating consequences, when we could have prevented them with a better working relationship? I have no ties with whatever agency it was that leveled that lawsuit. I haven't received any contributions from any of these environmental groups.

Browne: I have no personal or professional ties with Wild Earth Guardians. Wild Earth Guardians did work with the commission on the USDA AFES wildlife services contract. I have had Wild Earth Guardian employees in my office. They visited with all the commissioners as far as I know. I am proud to have been endorsed by two environmental action groups—Conservation Voters action fund and New Mexico Wild action fund. They are both C4 groups. I'm proud they like my record. What was left out of the question is that it was not the intent of the suit to cause the stoppage. It was the judge in Tucson, who was hearing the lawsuit who issued the injunction, and it was far more sweeping than it needed to be. Wild Earth Guardians asked the judge to step back and he did. I, also, as a commissioner wrote a letter to the judge asking that it be stepped back. None of that was necessary in order to force the Forest Service to do what it was legally bound to do in developing a spotted owl recovery plan.

Question: Since the last election, there has been a lot of comments made on social media by commissioners. What efforts will you take to hold commissioners accountable for their comments?

Browne: I think voters should hold the commissioners accountable for their comments. They should tell the truth, but I will not call them out. I would oppose censure, unless a crime is committed.

Shelley: Business before the county commission should be held to truth and honesty. I agree that voting is the best way to hold commissioners accountable. My goal will be to shed the truth on the light of the business before the commission, so everyone has the correct information.

Question: In the past six months, we have seen massive fires. Some claim it's caused by climate change and some say it's from environmental groups not letting the agencies do forest management. If you are elected what will you do to address the issue?

Shelley: I agree with the premise that climate change creates dry conditions. I believe the reason we're having such major fires is because we are in a prolonged drought. I do believe, whether it's intentional or a side effect of very aggressive actions by environmental groups that such things hinder the agencies from doing their forestry job. As I've said I'm an avid hiker. The last couple of times I've been to Mogollon Baldy, it has been devastated by tremendous fire activity. And the trails are just lost from what it used to be. I don't know what good at all it did for the spotted owl. We can do a lot better if we allowed good forestry and allowed industry. We could use the economic benefit. So, let's get back into logging that would create jobs and a good habitat for the wildlife. And you in Grant County and your property would be safer, too.

Browne: I agree with all the negative effects of the fires. We have had three fires within two miles of our cabin. I believe climate change is contributing to the fires. Peak temperatures cause humidity to go down. Saying environmental lawsuits are responsible is absolutely not true. Most of the economically viable timber has already been taken out of our forests. Grazing reduces grasses, compacts the soils and trees grown. Grasses keep small trees from growing and create low intensity fire. We should not have suppressed fires and overgrazed our delicate forests over the many decades in the past. The county has a chipper so that residents can decrease the fuel load around their houses. The county can contribute to forest management.

Seibel asked Shelley if he had anything he wanted to add.

Shelley: Yes, thank you, Nick. I think the timber industry in Catron County would disagree that environmental lawsuits over the spotted owl didn't impact their industry. I also take issue with Commissioner Browne, because good managed grazing improves the forage in the forest, and that's what we strive for.

Browne: Let me agree with Mr. Shelley that good managed grazing has the potential to provide ecological benefits. There are people working on that in the Southwest, but I don't believe we have any grazers using regenerative grazing, except perhaps A. J. Cole at the Pitchfork Ranch.

Daily Press reporter Geoffrey Plant: In first part of 2019, more than 700 people filled the conference center where the commission had moved its meeting. The majority opposed the legislation at the state level on permits and water discharge. If they had passed what effect would they have had on mining in Grant County?

Browne: I thought that meeting was great. We had quite the back and forth. We had the chance to hear from other people and they had a chance to hear from me. What the groundwater bill would have done was put us back 20 years prior to the Martinez administration reducing protections on ground water. She developed the special copper rule, which made it so that the company could pollute the water under the mines as much as they wanted. The proposed bill would have made the company keep the water standards at point of discharge, which is right at the bottom of the pit. That bill came with the possibility of seeking waivers. In my opinion the waivers would have kept the copper company honest. They had to monitor the water quality. I agree that it would be difficult to monitor in the pit. I don't think the other bill would have impacted the mines in Grant County in any way, except it would have protected the taxpayers if the company went bankrupt.

Shelley: What Commissioner Browne said isn't exactly right for a variety of reasons. No. 1, the Water Quality Act of New Mexico was written in the 1970s. There were already mines existing and it was well known at that time that there were conditions in the mines that did not meet the standards. The language was clear that the standards only applied to a place of reasonable future use. It was never intended that the water quality standards would apply in a copper mine's open pit where we cannot meet standards. It was never intended to say that having a mine at Chino or Tyrone was illegal unless you get not a waiver, but a variance. So, the difference is very important. What Commissioner Browne's legislation, which I believe he helped author and promote was to change the Act itself. You cannot get a variance from the act itself; you could only get it from a rule or a regulation. So, this would have put the mines in a bind that would have essentially prohibited mining.

Audience Question: What is responsible mining and how would you describe responsible mining? Does that mean meeting present regulations or does it mean something different?

Shelley: I do believe that we have very stringent regulations, and I believe the New Mexico Copper Rule set everything out and covered it from A to Z about copper mining. It does lay out the standard for responsible mining, so we have strong regulations, and the mines and their employees work very hard to meet those standards. We have an open door to receive comments and concerns, and the mines encourage them.

Browne: I strongly support responsible mining. We need copper to move forward in our clean energy economy. Copper is crucial. It is very important in moving us to gain prosperity, while dealing with climate change. Of course, 1,400 mining jobs plus all the contractor jobs are crucial to Grant County. Nothing I have ever done has even a remote chance of getting rid of mining in Grant County. It does have to do with enforcing the laws on the mining industry. Look at Latin America when the corporations are stronger than the people who live there and they can abuse them. Back to here and what is responsible mining here is indeed mostly complying with laws. I think it's hard to expect a corporation to do anything other than what is required of it. Its primary responsibility is to make money for its shareholders. That's why corporations exist. But there are other aspects. Communication is very important, and I think the company has gotten a C on that. The company needs to be more open with its community and residents about its plans.

Question: If you are elected commissioner what will you do to support farming and ranching along the Gila River and the continuation of them using their water rights? What steps can you take to prevent environmental groups from interfering with farmers' and ranchers' land and water use both on private and public land?

Browne: I'm not aware of any effort trying to prevent farmers' and ranchers' use of their water rights. We have adjudicated water rights, and I would expect the state engineer to uphold their water rights. They may have the impression that Wild and Scenic might affect their water rights. I don't think that's true at all. If it were, I could see the commission sending a resolution to our congressional delegation saying: 'No, you promised to adhere to water rights.' I'm not sure where it's coming from.

Seibel asked if there are opportunities for the commissioners to support ranchers and farmers outside the Wild and Scenic designation?

Browne: Sure, the way we support businesses in general is to provide a fair tax structure, government services like roads and law enforcement. That's key to successful businesses – to have good government services. Other than that, we have occasionally a chance to apply for grants that would apply to lots of industries, including agriculture.

Shelley: Wild and Scenic is a good example of where farmers and ranchers have been threatened, both by resolutions passed by county commissioners and by federal legislators promoting the designation. You might ask, why would anybody be opposed to legislation like this? The answer is because the Wild and Scenic Act, just like the Endangered Species Act has been routinely utilized by the Center for Biological Diversity, a very aggressive environmental group, to sue the federal government to stop grazing, for example. And it's been used to sue other agencies and individuals to stop their activities. There's also language in the act that does say – let's take the farmers on the Gila River for example. If they do need to change a diversion, which they ultimately always have to do because the river changes, they have to receive federal permits. With new rules in place, now that's another hoop to jump through to do their business. And the current legislation does not have sufficient language to protect the farmers and ranchers or for that matter the mining company on the Gila River. If those changes could be made, and they have been offered, there would be a whole lot more support for it.

Question: Is there an issue on which you agree with your opponent?

Shelley: I am aware that the County Commission is doing what it can to shore up and recover our hospital from bankruptcy. I believe Commissioner Browne has been a good contributor to that.

Browne: I don't know of any issues that we agree on, but I have no doubt that Tom cares deeply for this community. I respect that about him. I would also guess that we agree on fiscal issues. I would think there are a lot of issues we would agree with.

Plant: The commissioners are also serving as the Gila Regional Medical Center governing board. If you are elected will you work to restore the Behavioral Health Unit at the hospital even if it is not profitable?

Browne: Just so there is no confusion. We are not the Board of Trustees. We are the Board of County Commissioners and the hospital funding act gives us the authority to manage the hospital. If we have a new commissioner in January, he will be a member of the hospital governing board. We already are working to restore those services. Your question presumes those services can only be provided in a hospital setting. There are other options. When you go to the ER, you can get telehealth services. They will get assessed; the question is where they will go next. We hope to keep them in the community. The HealthTech experts we brought in are interested in community health. They are having open communications with Hidalgo Medical Services, which we had been begging the hospital to do for years. Perhaps, HMS can provide those services at the hospital. We're exploring things. Yes, this is a service the community needs.

Shelley: I think we all agree that Gila Regional Medical Center is an essential facility. It's one of the main things that attract people to move here. We need it to be a fully functioning, solvent service for all of us. I've had two surgeries; my wife may be ahead of me in the count. We've been very happy with the service provided to us. I know some are not, so there are things that could be better as a customer-oriented business. Yes, I think we have the responsibility to make sure the hospital is solvent. I think the county commission has the option to appoint a board of trustees. But the county commission must ensure that the facility remains viable and a great service for our community. I do understand the reasons why the BHU was terminated. I do think those services are important to the community. I do think we need to do it, whether at the hospital or through telehealth. I would like to see that service restored in our community one way or another.

Question: Historically, Gila Regional Medical Center has been governed by a Board of Trustees. We are the only county-owned hospital left in the state and county attorneys in the past had said the county could not govern the hospital. That the only authority the commission had was to appoint the members of the Board of Trustees. What do you believe should be done long-term? A Board of Trustees, the commissioners as the governing board or a third option?

Shelley: I do think that reappointing a Board of Trustees is a fine option. The benefit is that it is made up of community members working directly with the hospital to be the best it can be while voicing concerns. We can do it as a commission, but we miss something without the community input. I would be open to that path forward. I think it needs to be gauged on when the time is right. I believe we are still working through some weighty matters. I think it could happen within the next couple of years.

Browne: Previous county attorneys did not want us to be the board, because they didn't want us to face liability, not that we couldn't govern the hospital. The Hospital Funding Act at the very beginning: All counties shall have the power to: A) To purchase, own and maintain hospitals. Later on, it says we may appoint a board of trustees. There is absolutely no indication that is what we need to do. There is no real legal question that stops us from doing what we're doing. I think the attorneys were worried about the liability policy. We're working under the very same liability policy as the Board of Trustees was. And there's the Tort Claims Act that protects counties except in the case of extreme malfeasance. I am no longer as concerned about liability, but I am concerned about accountability. We are accountable to our residents. We appoint trustees, but they are not accountable to us or anyone, except the law. I feel pretty good being accountable. We can have an advisory committee that is fully accountable to us and actually fire people who are not doing their jobs. We are having discussions with people inside and outside the county, but right now my position is that we can continue to govern the hospital.

Question: A letter to the editor suggested suing the Board of Trustees for passing the 5-year contract for the previous CEO who you had to pay a good sum of money after she left rather abruptly without giving a good reason.

Browne: Yes, I've considered it strongly, but a lawsuit should be a last resort in resolving situations. They can cause personal pain; they can cost large sums of money. In our case, a lawsuit against the board would exacerbate the already large divisions in our community. That would be bad. That would discourage people from serving as trustees if they thought they could get sued. For these reasons, my fellow commissioners and I are very cautious. But there's that issue of accountability again. We may have to sue because of accountability. The commissioners appoint the trustees, and we trust them to manage the hospital. When they violate that trust, shouldn't they suffer some consequence? They created the first contract, then the 5-year one was given after only five months in office and without a performance review. It was done in secret and approved retroactively. That is not a good way to manage the hospital. She could have resigned the next day and gotten her full salary of $1.8 million. I think more people pay more attention to their cable TV bill than that board did on the CEO contract. When you think what the hospital could do with $928,000 paid out to her it begins to feel like we're at a place where the last resort is what we have to do.

Shelley: I would like to add something to my previous answer. If a Board of Trustees is appointed, there should be commission oversight, transparency and communication. And that accountability is critical. The problems at the hospital are a good example of why. I don't have the legal wherewithal that Browne has. If that is the only method of accountability, it should be considered, but I agree it's a last resort. I believe people that are appointed to positions like this should be comfortable to make decisions on our behalf. It should probably be audited, so there is clear accountability.

Question: According to many Grant County residents Gila Regional Medical Center provides very poor medical service and they tend to seek medical care elsewhere. If elected what will you do to improve performance and consumer confidence in Gila Regional?

Shelley: As I said before, I have utilized the resources and have needed the resources, and I believe my fellow Grant Countians need the resources. My experience has been very good. The medical staff and the doctors we have at Gila Regional, we have some great resources. I do recognize and have heard others say they are going out of town. We went outside the county for a surgery and regretted it. We wish we had stayed at Gila Regional. I think the perception about Gila Regional needs to be corrected. I think promotion can help. I think the commissioners could help establish a trust environment with our medical providers.

Browne: We've already started down that path. We hired HealthTechS3 to bring their huge knowledge of how to run a hospital effectively and provide quality care. I believe using their expertise, their experience and the amazing folks we have locally, and the solid, dedicated nursing staff we have at the hospital will help. We need to have state-of-the-art equipment, a solid billing staff and good scheduling. Scheduling has been a terrible problem. Many local providers send their patients elsewhere because of the scheduling problems. We're already starting some projects. HealthTechS3 has found a plan started three years ago to remodel the labor and delivery area into larger rooms to make sure every pregnant woman and her baby have a private bathroom and to give families space to be in the room with them when COVID is gone. I look forward to doing a lot more.

Plant: If elected, what can you and will you do to improve internet connectivity in Grant County?

Browne: I'm not the only one affected by internet services in Grant County [as he continued to have unstable service and would cut out once in a while for a word or two throughout the forum]. It's not just my work online only. I have plenty of students [at Aldo Leopold Charter School] who also have connectivity problems taking part in Zoom meetings. A number of entrepreneurs are working on projects to improve internet service in the county. I met with a group last year who can use antennas to help service. Kurt Albershardt and Nick Prince have teamed up as well. But there are some regulatory problems, because it is a regulated service. Comcast has been given this as their area. And these entrepreneurs cannot easily go into service areas and compete with Comcast. So, I think there are room for changes. But it is not a county decision, not even a state decision. The FCC regulates the services. I would be willing to band together with others to ask the FCC to allow more competition.

Shelley: My philosophy is that the free market provides the best service. I don't think the county can do much. We definitely have to seek a way to maybe get grants to get broadband services for the community.

Question: New Mexico is usually ranked the lowest or close to it in education. What can you do to support the schools?

Shelley: The County Commission doesn't govern the schools. Funding for schools is impacted by property taxes. I am not in favor of raising taxes. I think the county commission can work proactively with schools. The county has great attraction to people to move here with the university, the hospital and the Gila Forest and Wilderness, but we need to improve the competitiveness of students in our schools.

Browne: The commission has directly impacted the schools by permitting the development of the Great Divide Wind Farm. We negotiated for the gross receipts tax from the construction and operation of the wind farm to go equally 50-50 to the county and to Silver Consolidated. We can't include Cobre, because the area is in the Silver School district boundaries. But for the most part, it is not a county issue. Even property taxes aren't a county commission issue. The schools decide how to tax. The state determines the tax rates. It is a state-managed system. The thing that is crucial is to provide an excellent economy and wellness in their homes, because that's what kids need to succeed.

Question: Crime rates are high in the area. How will you support law enforcement?

Browne: Our Sheriff's Department has about 1/3 the county budget. Sheriff Frank Gomez has done well filling the vacancies. A lot of crime is drug- and mental health-related. It's a good reason to bring back a behavioral health unit at the hospital. We lost Yucca Lodge, which was providing services, but the state moved it. We need it back to complete the triad of care. We have a program at the Detention Center so that when inmates are released, we can set them up with needed services.

Shelley: Especially with all the national dialogue, I want to make sure to make it clear I fully support our local law enforcement. They put their lives on the line to protect our Constitution and our safety, and I am grateful for them and I stand with them completely. My goal as a commissioner will be to be able to pay our law enforcement personnel competitively, so we retain them. I believe we must improve the Detention Center and how it's operated and how it's funded by the state to make sure they are doing what they do to help us and make sure they are managed properly.

Plant: Do you believe it was correct to name Grant County a Second Amendment county?

Shelley: I supported it. In 2019 when we were attacked by potential legislation, one strong sentiment we heard was that we support our right to bear arms. I don't think the proposed gun control would have been easy to enforce.

Browne: No, I did not support it. I supported the legislation. Why did I not support being a Second Amendment county? I asked Gomez how he would know if it was unconstitutional. Gomez said a judge would have to decide. I do not want law enforcement enforcing constitutional issues. The people who proposed the resolution were against family members getting law enforcement to take guns out of homes where someone was dangerous. There should be laws to protect people.

Question: Electric vehicles do not pay gas taxes. How will the state pay for roads?

Browne: I own an electric car and hope soon to have an electric truck. I think we will go through a transition and either tax the electricity or perhaps when you register your vehicle you sign up for a financial commitment to the state over the years of ownership. It's a similar issue for solar panels, which I also have. I have some constituents who believe it is not fair to pay to subsidize solar panels. I'm benefitting from the grid.

Shelley: I don't have a ready answer. Maybe a meter based on the electric grid used to charge the vehicle. Or maybe the electric vehicle owner should be taxed to pay for the roads.

Question: The county has a $13-million budget. What is the largest budget you have managed?

Shelley: I've had the opportunity to manage budgets much larger than that, mainly as a manager of projects. I was involved in a $60 million project for Cobre Mine. It was delivered under budget. On the county level, you have the basic budget, but you also deal with other projects. I am very interested in the hospital budget.

Browne: The commission is responsible for the budget getting managed. I have never managed a budget larger than the county's. I'm the business manager for Aldo Leopold Charter School, and other than that, I'm treasurer for several groups. I was treasurer of the Silver City Co-op, which had a $2 million budget. I am the New Mexico Environmental Law Center treasurer, so I have plenty of experience with budgets. I have a master's degree and an MBA in international affairs. I think I bring a financial strength to the commission.

Question: Many of our local firefighters have been called away to support firefighting efforts in California and Oregon. How will you support the firefighter families and volunteer fire departments?

Browne: I've never had a firefighter family member ask for help. My son worked on crews supporting firefighters. I'm wide open to ideas for supporting them when they're out-of-town. It's a well-paying job and it's risky and I hope the families are prepared. We are responsible for the volunteer fire departments by approving their budgets, equipment and training reports. I will continue to support them.

Shelley: I think it's great that we have resources that can help other people in trouble. Like our law enforcement and first responders we owe them a debt of gratitude. I appreciate their protecting us and our lands. We approve the budgets that the volunteer fire departments receive from state funding. I think the main thing we can do is to be aware of our families. I think our community does a great job of staying aware of our friends and neighbors and their situations and asking them how we can help. Should we be reaching out to the firefighter families more as a community, just like we do for our military? What can we do to help you when you have a loved one gone?

Plant: Grant County is a member of the New Mexico Central Arizona Project Entity. If elected, how will you direct the county representative to vote and on how to prioritize spending the $75-80 million?

Shelley: I support and appreciate the CAP Entity. The Arizona Water Settlements Act was intended to help to make New Mexico whole. It is a settlement of a long-standing suit between Arizona and California. New Mexico always seems to be on the short end of the stick on water rights and so forth, as it relates to our neighboring states. Water is such a critical element for any economic future. I support pursuing the water that is allocated to New Mexico. I think we ought to use the New Mexico Unit Fund for what it was intended, to secure our long-term water future. I am not opposed to local projects to improve our use of the water that we have.

Browne: We already have a list of projects in Grant County. I know there are similar lists in Hidalgo and Luna County ,and I presume in Catron County that will help the local community develop new water and distribute the water they have, and increase aquifer retention, so there's no shortage of projects. I think the CAP Entity is the wrong group to manage these projects. It is possible it can reform itself, but it has not shown any potential to change. In fact, they said to a suggestion about the projects from their executive director, not right now, maybe later. The Entity was established to build and manage a diversion project. The JPA allows any individual member to veto any changes to it. There is no democratic control if it is not expanded to get representatives other than the present membership. If it will not expand, then we should get the Interstate Stream Commission to use a different body that is democratic and represents many different shareholders.

Seibel did a follow-up: How much of the money should be spent on a diversion and how much on projects? And what is the future of the diversion contemplated in the Arizona Water Settlements Act.

Browne: The only diversion I know of is the Gila Basin Irrigation Commission proposal. I think they don't want any of the money because of the requirements attached. I don't know of any other diversion project. I think dividing it up by counties by population is the best option and let each county determine what to do with the money.

Shelley: In New Mexico's long-term interests, I think the money should be used the way it was intended—to fund an environmentally responsible way to secure the water. While it may be politically expedient, a pot of money is always something that people can't resist getting into for other projects. And some of those may be critical, but by and large, I think the majority should be used to secure the water for our long-term future of Grant County and the other counties. We do have representation on the CAP Entity. Grant County voted to be a member of the entity, so we do have a say that represents our residents and their views. The money should be utilized for what it was intended, and I think it's critical for New Mexico's future.

Seibel asked Shelley to clarify: What does the long-term water future mean? Does it mean a diversion or deeper wells or what?

Shelley: It could be a diversion. I think the Gila can be maintained in an environmentally sound way and have another diversion. I think one project that I would consider useful would be to improve the diversions we have out there that the farmers utilize. I don't like the idea of the only way to provide water is pushing up an earthen berm. We could probably improve the diversions for the farmers, which would hydrate their farms earlier in the year when water is more plentiful. It would improve the whole eco-system along the Gila River, and it would also allow us to tap into the additional water that could be used economically.

Seibel Question: Certainly if you go on social media, and that may be the problem, and look at these county races, you see a whole lot of rhetoric especially on the side of the challengers about we're selling out the people of Grant County, we're selling ourselves out to Santa Fe or Washington D.C. or whoever. You see a lot of 'they want to destroy our way of life.' When I'm sitting here listening to the candidates, I'm not hearing you say that rhetoric. How much is true, how much is overblown and what do we do about it?

Shelley: I don't think it's constructive to make negative comments about a person's motives. I think really there just needs to be honesty in what's happening to people. We need to pay more attention to what they are feeling threatened by. For instance, the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act. I think there were some poor choices made. New Mexico Wild drafted the legislation and on their board is a prominent member of the Southwest Center for Biodiversity whose practice is to levy lawsuits. If you read their blogs, it's their favorite thing to do. And it's usually aimed at farmers and ranchers, who get the brunt end of it and don't have the means to fight the deep-pocketed groups. So, there are deep feelings, and yes, all of us have been guilty of exaggerating our perspective. We should just tell the truth.

Browne: I'm blissfully unaware of what you're talking about. I saw it four years ago with divisive rhetoric. This is an incredibly diverse community. We're accepting of other people. I think it comes from being a mining community. We have people coming in from all over the place. We don't ask where they came from or judge them. We look at what they do when they're here. We work together to improve where we live. I was quite dismayed four years ago, when I and other progressive candidates heard we were out to ruin the community. A large chunk of Grant County is made up of people who moved here. If you have a good representation, you should expect some of the officials will be outsiders. That's healthy, we bring new perspectives, new ideas. I would hope any candidate, including myself to correct any comments that we know are false or to tone down sentiments we know to be divisive or inflammatory.

Question: Once you're elected, you're a commissioner for all of the community. How do you address what is different from your perspective?

Browne: We cannot possibly represent everyone. We should maintain our stance. I don't think the residents of my district, for instance, expected me to support the Second Amendment Sanctuary County. It is only my duty to do what I say I will do. How we represent the whole county is that we respectfully listen to one another, air our views and then vote.

Seibel followed up: Do you have the responsibility to listen to other perspectives?

Browne: Of course, we all have that responsibility. I've changed my view more than once after hearing other viewpoints.

Shelley: I've had lots of opportunities for community service. I have served as a lay minister in my church for many years. We all have close relationships, but we don't always agree on everything. Listening is an important attribute for a commissioner. It has been said that a county commissioner represents everyone. Just because we represent one district, doesn't mean we can't listen to someone from another district and hear how something affects them. I appreciate the term Commissioner Browne used—respect. I agree completely with that. It needs to be present in the county commission meetings, and I think it is there by-and-large. It is incumbent upon us to listen, but we should follow our feelings on what is best for the community when we make decisions.

Time Machine Question: Hopefully, four years from now, we'll be in person. But at the end of the four-year term, what single thing have your accomplished that makes you the most proud?

Shelley: My greatest accomplishment on the commission, which I look forward to participating in, is that I helped my community recover its economy and its health that has been devastated by this crisis. I want to do that through honesty, principles of success, trust, freedom, enterprise and respect.

Browne: I hope to look back and say that Grant County citizens enjoy a greater degree of wellness. First, of course, we enjoy a high-quality hospital that is financially stable and that provides the services people need most. We also have in four year, a trails and open-space system implemented and integrated with the Silver City trails and with the Mining District, so that a large number of our community members can access the outdoors, through motorized access, hiking and biking, as well as hunting and fishing. We also will have an effective behavioral health system, have Yucca Lodge back and we will have addressed food insecurity, which affects a large percentage of our residents, especially the youth—I see it every day.

Closing Statements:

Shelley: Thank you for this forum. First off, I want to say I have an open door. I like to listen to people. I love people and my Facebook account is Tom Shelley candidate for county commission district 5. Or you can email me at tshelley4grantcounty@gmail.com and my cell phone number is 575-313-9291. We have an opportunity to restore not only our health but our trust between people and businesses and county and state government. Let's help each other be more sustainable. I'll always stand for you and your freedom and protect our constitution. I look forward to getting good language in the Wild and Scenic that we could all support and protect our water and our water future. I want to put in a plug for Ridge Road. It's in bad shape, and it's got a lot of trash along it. I think we can do better as a community, and that's important to me and my constituents as well. Thanks so much for this opportunity.

Browne: [He showed his contact information.] I can be contacted at the county or by phone at 575-654-4596 or at harry@browneforgrantcounty.com. I want to thank Tom for running. I know it's kind of a slog, but it's important to do it because you care for our community and I know that's why Tom is doing it, too. I want to mention the census. I hope everyone listening urges everyone to fill out their census. And we're still behind in New Mexico. Please mask up [as he put on his mask that said VOTE.] And I'd appreciate your vote.